Thanks to Tom Villar for helping me organize and submit the questions YOU ASKED to EEStor. I sent them over this morning after speaking with EEStor again yesterday. I had originally planned to post a deadline but once we reached over 50 questions, I figured we were entering overkill. Again, to set expectations fairly low: they may not want to answer any questions but I think it's encouraging that they asked for them to be submitted in writing for review by their BoD. I wanted to reiterate the offer for anyone to submit an article of interest about EEStor for possible inclusion on the blog. Just get in touch with me to discuss. -->
28 comments:
First--yeah!
B- can you post a copy of what you sent over to Eestor?
tom makes good use of google documents for these projects. so if he can securely post the doc so it cant be edited, that would be great.
I got to say this is the most bizarre thing I've ever seen, the company is so secretive and now we have communication in the most unprofessional process I've ever seen. This absolutely is embarrassing for the people on the board to be involved in, this is insane. Until some official announcement, none of this crap has any merit. EEstor ARE YOU READING THIS, NOW IS TIME FOR A PRESS RELEASE
Richard Weirs from christian science monitor
"We talk about our achievements through press releases. We talk with our current customers almost daily. We will also
talk about more things when the time is right."
We will see the questions soon under FAQ at www.eestor.us
Do prototypes Exist? I seen steve got into it a little bit last night whether EEstor has prototype units. A series of link qoutes from various documents across the web.
June 1st 2008 Interview with Ian Clifford
http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/01/exclusive-ceo-of-zenn-motor-company-on-eestor-eestor-storage-units-cityzenn-and-zennergy-drive-systems/
EEStors been testing to millions of cycles in their early cell prototypes so we basically have an energy storage device that is a permanent energy source that is distinct from something that has to be replaced every number of years.
January 10th 2008 Lockheed Interview
http://gm-volt.com/2008/01/10/lockheed-martin-signs-agreement-with-eestor/
Do they have something that they’ve tested that you’ve seen which makes you want to work with them?
We haven’t personally tested their prototypes yet. Its something that we’ll work on together this year.
January 2007 EEstor Press release
http://www.ultracapacitors.org/misc/EEStor_Supercapacitor-Ultracapacitor-01_16_2007.pdf
It is anticipated that the relative permittivity of the current powder will-either meet and/or
exceed 18,500, the previous level achieved when EEStor, Inc. produced prototype
components using its engineering level processing equipment.
September 2004 Technology Showcase
http://www.alliance.rice.edu/Images/alliance/PDF/Technology%20Company%20ShowcaseFINAL.pdf
The initial ceramic battery can store 52.22 kW*hrs of electrical energy in a
400 pound commercial unit and a 200 pound military unit.
EEStor WIPO patent 2006
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/fetch.jsp?SEARCH_IA=US2005028970&DBSELECT=PCT&C=10&TOTAL=3&IDB=0&TYPE_FIELD=256&SERVER_TYPE=19-10&QUERY=%28FP%2Feestor%29+&ELEMENT_SET=B&START=1&SORT=41240386-KEY&RESULT=3&DISP=25&FORM=SEP-0%2FHITNUM%2CB-ENG%2CDP%2CMC%2CAN%2CPA%2CABSUM-ENG&IDOC=1322545&IA=US2005028970&LANG=ENG&DISPLAY=DESC
The following data indicates the relativity permittivity of ten single-coated composition-modified barium titanate powder batches. Batches Relativity Permittivity @ 85° C 1. 19,901 2. 19,889 3. 19,878 4. 19,867 5. 19,834 6. 19,855 7. 19,873 8. 19,856 9. 19,845 10. 19,809
Average relativity permittivity = 19,861
The following data indicates the relativity permittivity of ten components measured at 85° C, then 85° C and 3500 V, and the last test 85° C and 5000 V. Components 850 C 85° C - 3500 V 85° C - 5000 V 1. 19,871 19,841 19,820 2. 19,895 19,866 19,848 3. 19,868 19,835 19,815 4. 19,845 19,818 19,801 5. 19,881 19,849 19,827 6. 19,856 19,828 19,806 7. 19,874 19,832 19,821 8. 19,869 19,836 19,824 9. 19,854 19,824 19,808 10. 19,877 19,841 19,814 Average K 19,869 19,837 19,818 Results indicates that the composition-modified barium titanate powder that has been coated with 100 A Of AUO3, immersed into a matrix of PET plastic, and has been polarized provides a dielectric saturation that is above the 5000 V limit and the relative permittivity is highly insensitive to both voltage and temperature.
Leakage current of ten EESUs that contain 31,351 components each and having the capability of storing 52.22 kW»h of electrical energy measured at 85° C and 3500 V. EESU Leakage Current - μA 1. 4.22 2. 4.13 3. 4.34 4. 4.46 5. 4.18 6. 4.25 7. 4.31 8. 4.48 9. 4.22 10. 4.35
Average leakage current 4.28
Voltage breakdown of ten components with and average dielectric thickness of 9.81 μm measured at a temperature of 85° C. Component Voltage Breakdown — 106 V/cm 1. 5.48 2. 5.75 3. 5.39 4. 5.44 5. 5.36 6. 5.63 7. 5.77 8. 5.37 9. 5.64 10. 5.88
Jay,
Thanks for the summary of official references to EESTOR prototypes.
You brought into play 2 that I missed last night:
Ian Clifford:
EEStors been testing to millions of cycles in their early cell prototypes so we basically have an energy storage device that is a permanent energy source that is distinct from something that has to be replaced every number of years.
and
Richard Weir,
The initial ceramic battery can store 52.22 kW*hrs of electrical energy in a
400 pound commercial unit and a 200 pound military unit.
Prototypes exist. end of...
I agree with a lot you've said Jack but aren't the permittivity measurements cited above at high voltage (up to 5000V)?
I also agree that some of the statements but not all are pretty clearly indicating the existence of prototypes.
mrjerry - I feel the same way. B's investigative reporting is cool when take with some grains of salt, but Eestor officially communicating through a blog is awful.
I really hope Eestor asked for these questions so that they can craft a comprehensive PRESS RELEASE that puts their official stamp on this, and removes doubt that this is a pump/dump scheme.
mrjerry et al, keep in mind, EEStor does have a press release coming and will be using that mechanism just as any other company would. but what i did was request an interview with senior officials at eestor. i was told to submit my questions in writing. after some thought, i figured why not let the blog readers contribute questions. so, i think maybe you're thinking too hard about what's really not that strange at all if you maintain the context.
B - fair enough, if the context is that they will grant/deny an interview and tell you which questions they can answer.
HOWEVER... I respect your reasons for anonymity, but Eestor really shouldn't be communicating with you knowing this situation. If they want to do an interview, cool. But they should insist that you reveal your identity, or they should do the interview with a journalist with a track record. No offense, but you really could be anyone with any agenda.
B - A professional way to do this is simple. EEstor informs you that on July 28th they will have a press release. Mr. weirs has informed us that at that time he will be taking questions. He also said if we wanted to submit question in advance he will try to answer some of them at that time.
And in terms of an interview..
Perhaps you could partner on it with Tyler? Perhaps you could set up an arrangement where you do a joint interview, and both write it up. You would maintain your anonymity, and the piece and Eestor would both gain the credibility of dealing with an established journalist. Tyler would make his bosses happy, and we could still discuss everything on this blog.
richterm said,
B's investigative reporting is cool when take with some grains of salt, but Eestor officially communicating through a blog is awful.
and
I respect your reasons for anonymity, but Eestor really shouldn't be communicating with you knowing this situation.
I strongly disagree with you rich.
EESTOR doesn't owe you anything. They don't owe anybody anything as far as revelation.
EESTOR is a private company. They have chosen, in their technology, as well as their communication with the public, to buck the normal trend of thought. They are pioneers.
Taking all of EESTOR's press releases in contect with ZENN official press releases, and interviews with other key players (Lockheed Martin, KBPC etc) they've told you everything they feel the public needs to know.
They put it down in a press release, "we have reached 18,500 pemittivity".
Richard Weir has told professional journalists that they have done the job and that they have the goods. They've said this at many different times, and through many different sources.
Even if they never spoke to B, I would imagine Richard Weir feels like he should be perceived as a trustworthy persom. There's nothing in his history to contradict him being an upstanding guy.
And he's sent out Lockheed Martin and Zenn to tell you that he's got what he says he has.
If people don't want to believe Richard Weir, let them sit on their money. I believe EESTOR is talking to B instead of professional journalists because he knows the people who participate on this blog for the most part have done the DD and are capable, intellectually capable, of determining bullshit from truth, probably better than your average newspaper reader.
I don't trust professional newspapers or sources as far I can throw them.
Mainstream media has blood on their hands. But I digress.
Thank you Mr Weir for giving us the chance to believe and for giving us a chance to take the public disclosures here at B's blog and do something with them.
I believe that those who do their DD will eventually be very happy they had the chance to learn the future of EESTOR from B's blog because it gives those who are educating themselves an upper hand on those who are demanding confirmation from "mainstream meadia"...
yeah
From EEstor WIPO patent
"Leakage current of ten EESUs that contain 31,351 components each and having the capability of storing 52.22 kW»h of electrical energy measured at 85° C and 3500 V"
Steve this would indicate to me that EEstor had atleast 10 complete EESUs back in 2006. EEstor major technological herdal since then has to be the production line.
jay,
Excellent point.
What's so funny, and why I believe Weir is communicating with B, is that they've let the public know in so many different ways that they have working engineering level prototypes....
....and the peanut gallery/commentatorazi just sit there saying (whilst holding large carrot and chewing with buck teeth):
"Hey Doc, where's the prototypes."
And in the cartoon you see Wyle E. Coyote, dropping 300 hundred pounds of EESTOR prototype shaped like an anvil right on the bunny's head.
steve said -
"I strongly disagree with you rich.
EESTOR doesn't owe you anything. They don't owe anybody anything as far as revelation. "
As I've made clear, I am strongly leaning toward believing in Eestor based on all the DD I've done myself. Piecing the puzzle together is good to a point, but Eestor does have at least an ethical obligation to disseminate information in a professional manner.
Correct, Eestor is a private company. However they have allowed a situation evolve where a public company shares ownership in their company. Therefore by proxy, they are a public company and should start to act that way in the release of info. In one way I've very glad for this, and for the opportunity to invest in them. But the cynic could fairly state that they've created a situation whereby their information (or misinformation) DIRECTLY affects the stock price of a public company. To complicate the matter further, a Canadian public company that is not directly regulated by the SEC. This is where I see Eestor having an ethical obligation to make sure that any official information they release should come through press releases or verifiable sources. You can dislike mainstream media all you like, but if they interview Weir they put their name on it, and there is no doubt that it's really his voice. Our good frien B has done a great job, and I tend to believe he's not part of a conspiracy. However,it's just not right for Eestor to be disseminating information through him. Reality is that he could be making up 50% of his info. To be fair, Eestor has not really used B to release info - it seems to be mostly leaks from internal informants. The exception is Weir speaking to B. He holds back for the most part, but really shouldn't do it just because it amuses him. He should use B as a source for receiving questions from the public, and then answer those questions in the daylight.
keep in mind that eestor's main goal is to commercialize their invention not enable their competitors. they dont have to talk to anyone right now or even after their press releases. as for whether they should talk to a journalist or a blogger, I think that all depends on their goals with talking with anyone at all. once you understand that, then you can back into what should come from where and when. (and i think the major difference between newspaper articles and blogs is one of audience, btw) then once you have that in mind, throw in an added measure of counterintuitivity to keep people guessing.
tyler is a great journalist covering a vitally important area of information (alt energy/clean tech). to date, he's written the best articles anywhere about eestor to explain what they are trying to do. i personally look forward to more of his coverage of this story.
richterm said:
However they have allowed a situation evolve where a public company shares ownership in their company. Therefore by proxy, they are a public company and should start to act that way in the release of info.
I'm sorry Rich, but I don't believe there's any legal precedent for what you are saying. Publicly traded VC firms invest in private companies all the time, for big chunks of cash... that doesn't create any obligation at all for the private company to share information with the public.
EESTOR has given all of the "material facts" to the public via traditional/professional sources.
He's PR'd permittivity and Bairum Nitrate purity.
He's published patents and patent applications.
He's given interviews to Tyler Hamilton etc.. He's cleared Ian Clifford and Lionel Liebman (of Lockheed martin) to issue information. The information is flowing in a controlled and orderly manner.
What he's given to B are subtle "insights" which reflect upon all of the things he's already given out to more traditional sources.
I reiterate, EESTOR is a private company and they don't owe you or I anything more. The fact that we get more because we read this blog tells me that Weir believes in helping those who help themselves.
People just want it all on a silver platter spelled out for them. If you've done the DD, you should already "know" what you need to know. If you haven't then nothing else will suffice.
You said,
Our good frien B has done a great job, and I tend to believe he's not part of a conspiracy. However,it's just not right for Eestor to be disseminating information through him. Reality is that he could be making up 50% of his info.
Once again, that may be your reality based upon your DD, but my research indicates that Richard Weir if anything B was reporting here were not true, than EESTOR would have told Tyler Hamilton (or another pro journo) exactly that.
This blog and B's access to EESTOR, like the EESTOR technology, are evidence that Richard Weir is the kind of person who likes to stir it up, change the grid, change the way people use the world's energy and resources.
EESTOR's giving access to the little guy is very encouraging.
steve,
The difference with Eestor/Zenn is the degree to which Zenn's stock price is tied to Eestor. Zenn's stock moves much more for info about Eestor than their own press releases where they say they're considering expansion, etc. Somebody behind the scenes could be making a boatload of money - manipulation would be extremely easy, and difficult to prosecute because of the private/public setup, and Zenn being on a Canadian exchange.
I agree with your points about the DD and where it has led me, and my speculative investment in Zenn shows that.
When a said 50% of B's info could be made up, I'm playing devil's advocate. I believe a good chunk of it because I agree other signs point to it being true, and I'm willing to take the risk because of the upside. But he really could just be someone who bought Zenn recently at 4.90 and sold at 5.60 - there are plenty of manipulators like that out there, and any naive investors who read this blog must understand that.
The core of my point is that if/when Eestor wants to answer these questions, they should do it in such a way as to leave no doubt that the answers are coming from them and not a hype machine.
B !
You are getting famous by the name "a new mystery blogger" . There are links to this blog appear all over the places.
For example check this out, I got it from www.techreview.com link:
http://venturebeat.com/2008/07/23/googleorg-gives-electric-cars-a-push-with-investments-in-aptera-and-actacell/
Richterm,
The price of all stocks are tied to news. I don't see how this is any different. EESTOR has no ethical obligation to do anything different than they have done.
Your hypotheticals require the existence of shady unethical people operating a pump and dump. I have have seen nothing at all which raises any red flags. As long as EESTOR delivers what they say they will deliver and what they say they have prototypes for, all critics will be shut down.
It's a matter of perception. If you believe the mainstream media should be the only venue for disseminating information to the public, then you can invest along that old school party line.
I have more faith in EESTOR because they've chosen this blog to let some insights out upon. I don't trust the mainstream media at all...
It feels like Weir is trying to put out the information, publicly, in a manner which rewards those people who have done their homework.
If that "appears" unfair, so be it.
So far, Rich, all of your critiques are based on "appearance"... but as long as EESTOR hasn't "done" anything unethical, why should they give a shit about appearance?
When they drop the bomb, and the EESU suddenly "appears".... that's the only appearance that matters.
They haven't done anything unethical, just unconventional.
I say bravo to that.
Steve - I don't think either of us will change our points of view on this. Hopefully Eestor will announce just as B described, and we'll both be very happy.
If it all goes down the tubes, you'll just be more surprised than I will.
B - any gut feeling at all about the timeframe for Eestor's announcements?
Steve,
That is great words, although they do not mean anything. EEStor is busy with doing it's job and probably does not care what are you saying here. Information they leaked ( which also could be somebody's joke) is just a favor for "hungry" people.
EEstor still has to come up with product. There are some indications that they have something but what it is and would it deliver the promises is still pretty much big unknown.
Personally I am, like most of us here, sick of this carbon burning age and hope they will succeed.
But before that happens, we are all gamblers here, so do not forget to gamble responsibly.
Thanks "B" for your blog. A few trivial comments:
A glance at the satellite photos of eestor on discovery blvd does not show tanks of liquid nitrogen or any other typical industrial infrastructure. Is it likely that the "raw materials" are not so raw? The length of the buildings suggest a linear automated production line but there are five buildings, one in front that is probably offices and four longer but non-uniform buildings. There doesn't appear to be many people working and it is a photo taken a bit past noon on a work day.
I can understand one of the buildings functioning as a wherehouse but the other three could contain workshops, the actual production line and perhaps a prototype production line. It also seems that without human intervention on the line these production lines would not be too long. The buildings I see are 200-300 feet long. Perhaps they only use part of a building for now and the future lines will occupy the other buildings. Cars seem to be distributed around most of the buildings so it implies that a half dozen or so people are in most buildings. I notice that there is an incredible amount of parking available.
I am guessing that they are making the equipment to make factories.
Thank you ricinro! Now if I could just get someone to escort me at a brisk pace thru the middle of their fabrication plant.
sds, EESTOR does read these blogs and I know for a fact that they have even contributed to blogs before. See kedros prac (Latin for Cedar Park?) Also there was a one liner under the name of illiterate shitheads a couple of years ago that I have always suspected came from EESTOR. Had to do with effective permittivety.
I see patterns. Just ask capacitorman who has been blogging under the name of john g as of late.
If I was Eestor then I would use B's blog to solicit the list of questions that the informed and interested would like to know the answers to, as Eestor may not have a better mechanism for getting this list and it does not involve them in much work to get it. I would
review the list, decide which questions to answer and formulate and agree at board level the answers I wished to give. I would then put out a press release consisting of a statement of some sort (which maybe I wanted to make anyway) followed by the Q&A section created above. I would send this to the press and, out of courtesy to B since he has been good enough to do all the hard work of collecting the questions, concurrently send him an electronic copy to put on his blog. That way the answers are all publicly verifiable. I can't see B's blog being the exclusive method of disseminating the answers, somehow.
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