Thursday, August 7, 2008

New Forums / New Article

Although I always catch grief for it but, I wanted to let everyone know I am working on a new article which will likely be posted tomorrow evening.

After some insightful conversations with various interested parties, I believe the best way forward for the near term is to post new articles to both locations with a link to the new beta site where comments can be posted. I will thus be shutting down comments on this blog in favor of moving discussion to a better blog/forum/chat format. It's not going to satisfy everyone's desires but early feedback is good from all who have seen it. Actually, I'll throw it out again...if you've been trying to get some content into an article shoot me an email and I'll let you be an alpha tester. (some of christine's research looks good but all are welcome)

In the event we run into technical glitches, we'll fall back to this site. Then until I can get all the blog posts migrated over to the new site...with comments, we'll run both sites in parallel. This will be nice for those of you who like to read the articles twice. :-)


Zawy said...


ricinro said...

I'll second that!
Did anyone verify that the rail gun (grumman) was using EESUs.
or was it an aspirational inference.
I wonder if a eestor production line is at another undisclosed location (Cheney's bunker?) for military applications.

ricinro said...

Mr Jerry submitted (in part):
But Northrop Grumman, a few months back setup a contract with EEStor. They now have access to as many ultra-capacitors as they need. Anyway, good luck on this project. It should be doable now.
The guns use megawatts of energy so that would be a heck of a pile of EESUs so it seems like the must be a production line somewhere where hundreds or thousand of kilograms of material would have been used. Doesn't seem like this is happening in Cedar park.

Jeff said...

With Mort Topfer involved and Michael Dell a possible investor it's possible they've set up manufacturing in a Dell building. Dell has buildings throughout the area. Dell recently announced the closing of the huge "Mort Topfer" desktop manufacturing facility.

OntarioInvestor said...


Unknown said...

- b: Your porting plan sounds sound.

By the way, the rewrite you asked for should be up on the other site tonight. Thanks for all your work.

- ricinro:

That's more detail than I've been able to find on Northrop/EEStor. Could you provide a link?

Also, do you have any info (links) on this supposed McDonald-Douglas/EEStor EESU "supply order"?

One more thing:

"The guns use megawatts of energy so that would be a heck of a pile of EESUs..."

It might need only one, if designed properly (i.e. MilSpec, etc).

I've sensed that there is little visceral understanding of the character and extent of the military implications of this technology (and, probably more importantly the state of the art of this technology 7 or so years from now), for those on this blog who are not technophiles or have the benefit of a formal technical education.

I think in trying to communicate some of the related military/political consequences as I have in the past, I've been failing in tailoring my posts to my intended audience. My fault, and I'll try to do better.

Suffice it to say that, if I were to list some of the developments I believe will probably come about in 5 to 10 years, I would have a hard time believing it myself.

But "probably" isn't "definitely", so who knows?


ricinro said...

mrjerry said...
Reported purchase of eestor for Rail GUN by Northrop Grumman (Note:they have contracts with Lockheed Martin). The person posting certainly is an expert in this area..

My own search show a BAE I am not sure the source of mrjerry's post

These things use quite a bit of energy albeit for a fraction of a second.

ricinro said...

I am trying to figure out how to have entire links print out in full...

this report has a drawing showing relatively small capacitor banks for a 16MJ burst.

Unknown said...

- ricinro:


Anything on McDonald-Douglas's supposed "EESU order" you might come across, let me know.


Satya51 said...

I have been wondering if prototypes had been constructed for LM for military use. Price for these weapons would not need to be at mass production rates. There would be no way to prove or disprove, but someone built those capacitor banks for those rail guns.

OntarioInvestor said...


Tom Villars said...


Here are the magic words to type to get a link:

<a href="">Text Description</a>

So your link would look like this:

General Atomics Team Powers Navy Rail Gun To New World Record

Feel free to ask if you have problems.

Lensman said...

Blogger ricinro said...

I am trying to figure out how to have entire links print out in full...

Use: convert your long links to short ones. It's quick and easy, I do it all the time. And best of all, it's free!

nekote said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
nekote said...

FWIW: I'd like to suggest making URL's the classic underlined hyperlink.

Very simple to do.
And us lazy folk can just click, instead of the laborious copy and paste into a browser address field. :)

< a href="your http URL">text name< /a>

Without the space after each / both of the < symbols.

'text name' can be most any text.
A simple and common choice is a duplicate (paste) of the 'your http URL'

FWIW#2, on the new platform, just a tad different (uses BBCode - Bulletin Board Code alternate version of HTML code):
[url]"your http URL"[/url] gives the common hyperlink that has 'your http URL' underlined.

[url="your http URL"]text name[/url] is the alternative

(the " are a good habit, but only truly necessary with special characters, such as embeded blank(s)/space(s).

Lastly, TinyUrls are cool.
But I like to be able to hover over the link and see where the hyperlink is going to go. Ever so seldomly, some cretin uses it to go to someplace nasty.

Doc said...

The location of the production line is what concerns me. The main office is located in a strip mall type office building next to an Radiology office. It is unlikely that there is any manufacturing going on at that facility.

richterm said...

doc -

That's way down my list of concerns. Lockheed is on record saying they're very impressed with Eestor's facilities, and the approach is for very quick ramp-up. So if we can't remotely figure out exactly where and what size those facilities are, I don't think it's worth losing sleep over.

(If the thing works and it's in RW's basement, it's still worth billions.)

jam said...

One question to ask to R.D. Weir,

Did you measure the voltage coefficient of capacitance of your 10 components?

Charles Barton said...

Has EEStor discussed how many charge-discharge cycles the expect from the ESESU?

dmon said...

re railgun concerns about megawatts... remember that a 1MW discharge over 3.6 seconds gives you only 1kWh. And 3.6 seconds would be a very long burst.

Charles B: I recall mention of million-cycle tests of their prototypes.

ApplewoodCourt said...


you raise one of my many concerns - along with the office location - all giving rise to something that doesn't seem right.

the zenn stock price has stalled and the volume, relatively speaking has been anemic, especially following the big eestor "announcement" regarding the 3rd party verification of their lab equipment.

if major investors believed that something big was about to happen then we should expect to see a run up in zenn's stock price. if we take weir at his word, then when things are in production and "everyone is happy" there will be a web page.

so, as far as "clues" are concerned - Zenn's stock price is stagnant to falling - on anemic volume; eestor still has no web page; the only "news" has been about testing lab equipment; Zenn and Clifford have made no announcements; there have been no independent confirmations of anything; no one has reported any sightings of "Mt Barium Titanate" springing up in the middle of Cedar Park, Texas; Eestor's HQ is still in the strip mall; no one has seen a production facility; no one has seen a new HQ; and weir isn't going to make any claims about when they are going to get product out their - it's between him and the customer. Geezus - stop for one GD second and think ... there was more CREDIBLE information out about B-2 and F-117 than there is about Eestor.

ApplewoodCourt said...

what is anemic volume?

zenn's average daily volume for the past 3 months has been ~127k shares per day. Today, with over half of the trading day gone, Zenn has traded 23k shares - on pace for ~50k shares for the day << 50% of average. this tells us that there are NO major players who have faith that this stock is going anywhere in the near future.

also - "word" gets around when things are about to happen ... and when things are about to happen, volume goes up.

Satya51 said...

The lawn chair crowd at area 51 hasn't got interested in watching where Weir drives yet. Eestor's plan is to locate lines at customer's plants. LM could stash one and you would not likely find out.

So, there is still no way for you to know one way or the other. Not to worry though as you have already sold (as you mentioned on another blog). I don't blame you for continued doubts and interest, and sharing those. It is important to keep all the lack of information in front and what it could mean.

I take the lack of trade volume and price movement as no new news. And why would Eestor's investors buy Zenn, when they can put money directly in Eestor later?

larry said...

hard to hide a B 2 when testing. How hard is it to hide an ESU and a few production lines until Mr. Weir is good and ready to disclose. If he doesn't give a flip about anyone's stock price and would rather just be left alone until he's ready and only says just enough to keep his investors quiet, then he's playing it about right, in spite of your and my "kill a cat" curiosity. He doesn't need any more money for now, and in spite of low ZNN volume, I'd bet there are many big investors with curiosity building to the explosion point, so when/if Mr Weir announces, the reaction will be just that, an explosion.

Unknown said...

This just in... a123 systems going public on nasdaq. How would you like to get in on that ipo right before eestor makes announcements.. Honestly I wanted in on that company when i first heard of it in late 2005 but it was private. everything i thought was going to happen, has been dead on with this. Now eestor, if i am right will blow them all away, but expect several setback along the way.

a123 ipo announcement

richterm said...

There's no volume because mostly those who are comfortable being in are in and staying in for the moment. Those who are out still haven't heard anything they find believable/motivating enough yet.

I agree the last 2 days volume has been very surprisingly low. But that also means no one is selling, and there's no secret bad info slipping out.

Bretspot said...

A123 Systems is going public.
Supposedly they are going to be making batteries for the Chevy Volt.

A123 Going Public

Check it out:
A123 Systems going public
August 8, 2008
The battery maker files to raise up to $175 million in an initial public offering.

Watertown, Mass.-based A123 Systems, which makes advanced lithium-ion batteries and battery systems for the transportation, electric grid and portable power markets, announced today that it plans to raise up to $175 million in an initial public offering.

The company has not yet set the number of shares or a price range, but expects to trade on the Nasdaq under the symbol "AONE."

richterm said...

If Eestor announces something, that could be a bloodbath.

ackkk said...


I agree that It is important to keep the lack of information in mind. But what confounds me is the information we do have and how it is disseminated. If the company wants to operate secretly until the release of its product, that is something and might be a wise business plan under the circumstances; but that is not what Eestor is doing. Rather, they choose to offer obtuse 'milestone' press releases that may/may not indicate they are on a path to success. I continue to ask "who is the intended audience for this information?" There are certainly plenty of posters to this board who are encouraged by the information; and there are even some here who can interpret the secret imbedded clues in the press releases and conclude 'it's a done deal.'

Certainly, if Eestor has the funding in place for a production line able to complete a working eesu, then they don't need to be fishing for further venture capital. Why release the information.

I found the story of Energenius to be an interesting analogue. They seemed to believe they were very close to producing a very similar product several years ago. They have big public and private investors. What happened to their product?

Why don't we hear from Eestor's neighbors at their office park location. Could they verify shipments of industrial materials, or high electricity consumption?

larry said...

on the "Tyler" post I showed a market value calc for EESTOR of $4B
ZENN invested 2.6M+ in E
Kleiner 3M
Recently other investors $14M for a 11% stake in Z. Z without E = 0
The new investors valued E at $3B, now the market says $4B.
I'd say the market is exuberant, just not off the wall crazy yet.

Satya51 said...

As I understand it, the milestones are for an improved process of mass production that Eestor felt was significantly better for both cost (30 Lbs of nickel/EESU not required and aluminum substituted, production at low temperature due to use of PET versus alumina silicate) and improved performance (future products, unspecified, could be manufactured by the new process - LM?, other?). Their backers agreed that it was prudent to pursue the commercialization of the new aluminum, PET process.

The January 2007 milestone triggered a payment from Zenn, the second milestone announced was apparently an internal milestone that was important to these future unspecified applications. From R. Weir's point of view, this milestone was a "home run," and implied that the remaining work was not tricky. It is my understanding that the printing mechanism is the proprietary part and is kept out of view on tours, so it must be a critical part of the line and it must also be completed (maybe awaiting a patent). So, I am not expecting further substantial delays. Remember, R. Weir mentioned in the interview part 3 early 2009 for commercial. I pointed that out, but there was no fanfare about the date until later. I was not surprised about the 2009 date for completed products as there are other parts to a completed EESU such as electronics that would have to be ordered and built plus raw material contracts signed, and that would not be expected until the lines were completed and certified. It looks like addition lines though are already in process of being built.

We also know that Mort Topfer was on the board, left the board, and rejoined the board. That is also a strong indication that mass production essentials were well on their way to a resolution.

So, what has been kept secret and what has been reveled have been enough to keep competitors in the dark and investors in Zenn with enough information to raise a small amount of money.

It might even warrant a novel next year or late 2021.

ApplewoodCourt said...

here's an idea - why doesn't someone from austin just cruise by eestor and stop by for a visit, then report back. =)


i agree with your line of questioning - who is the target of the information / disinformation? if financing, etc. are all covered and things are in order, why would weir leak any info whatsoever? why talk to b? why talk to tyler hamilton? also, why remain in a sh1thole office next to the yoga wellness center? maybe weir likes to do yoga and goes to the community bible study located in the same office park? given the "potential" amount of money involved - one might believe that weir might be able to get quality temporary digs in a decent office space. again, given the huge sums of money involved - and the certainty of the goods being delivered, KPC&B, Mort or any of the other financial backers could certainly kick in for some nice digs given the amount of money that they are about to make, right?

do you see where i am going with this?

i worked for a tech startup, with an uncertain future, despite being next to the Conoco gas station, we had nicer digs than eestor.

Unknown said...

here's an idea - why doesn't someone from austin just cruise by eestor and stop by for a visit, then report back. =) - I second that

In the meantime i share this with everyone who been there all say the samething (lockheed, zenn, and this engineer) it's all consistent

"EEStor’s battery-ultracapacitor hybrid is based on barium-titanate nanopowders, a ceramic material. A colleague and respected engineer had the opportunity to visit EEStor recently and left “highly impressed.” Although tight-lipped and preferring to remain anonymous he said that, “The facility goes well beyond pilot, and will support substantial commercial production when it comes on-line later this year.” EEStor’s CEO, Dick Weir, is notoriously non-communicative. Greentech Media continues to watch this company. More soon."

Satya51 said...

Sorry about getting your identity name misspelled, it was not intentional.

I was not implying that someone should start taking yoga lessons in hopes of getting a date with the secretary for some under cover work.

Perhaps R. Weir is just cheap. I worked with an engineer that wore polyesther knits in 2005 that I had a 1975 photo showing him wearing. R. Weir's office doesn't seem to have kept Mort Topfer from joining his board, or LM entering into a contract, or Kleiner from dropping him a check.

Does not look like he is a scammer to me. And his wife working there, well all the better to keep a sharp eye on him and the secretary.

ackkk said...


You are just about the only poster I find here who is willing to entertain these questions. I find the whole thing very curious and troubling; and that not many speculate along these lines.


Yes. That is what keeps me interested, but I have a hard time weighing 'lockheed, zenn, and this engineer' against what i feel deserves questioning.

Unknown said...

I'd like to know why everyone thinks this site is their only office? I'd find it hard to believe that their factory line is in a strip mall office space (it's impossible).

So, here's the only question that's worth asking or answering.

Where's the factory? It isn't in the strip mall.

Unknown said...

The secrecy does make sense when you put the puzzle together.

Most of the articles on these guys have been vague, but upbeat. Last year, the Toronto Star had a bit more detail, and EEStor threatened them, according to this post. The links to the original story no longer work.

"The facilities, though, are supposed to be state-of-the-art. The place looks like a lab set up by DARPA, I'm told. That's where a lot of the money from Kleiner, Perkins apparently is going apparently."

tyler recent blog
i.e. there's a big focus here on developing military applications using the technology. He called what he's working on as "Manhattan II."

ApplewoodCourt said...


i did some digging a few days ago and found the following business record.

Company Profile: Eestor, Inc

Year Started:2001

State of Incorporation:N/A


Location Type: Single Location

Est. Employees:9

Est. Employees at Location:9

Contact Name:Richard D Weir

Contact Title:President


There are also certain rules that businesses must play by with regards to the number of employees - the threshold, I believe is 50. <50 "small business" >=50 medium, etc. so this should be basic info on public record.

ApplewoodCourt said...

the full profile ...

Eestor, Inc

715 Discovery Blvd, Cedar Park, TX 78613-2287, United States

Phone: (512) 259-7601

SIC:Storage Batteries

Line of Business:Mfg Batteries
Detailed Eestor, Inc Company Profile

This company profile is for the private company Eestor, Inc, located in Cedar Park, TX. Eestor, Inc's line of business is mfg batteries.

Company Profile: Eestor, Inc

Year Started:2001

State of Incorporation:N/A


Location Type:Single Location

Stock Symbol:N/A

Stock Exchange:N/A

Also Does Business As:N/A


SIC #Code:3691

Est. Annual Sales:$890,000

Est. Employees:9

Est. Employees at Location:9

Contact Name:Richard D Weir

Contact Title:President

Bretspot said...

My theory on the size of the company?

They have a few engineers, building equipment for making the powereds and devices in a CAD program. They already figured out the technlology a few years ago, and all their time now is simply designing the equipment or modifications to current equipment with their "Special formula". Once everything is ready, they give the plans to a manufacturing company, and have them start pumping out units. That way, all EEStor has to do is own, maintain and develop the "Secret formula" and pass it along to companies willing to make devices for them.

Small microprocessor/controler companies do it all the time. Simply design the product and have it sent abroad where a manufacture can pump out units for them.

ApplewoodCourt said...

Tossing more things out there ...

Mort Topfer is head of Castletop Capital, which primarily invests in residential land developments, retail and commercial properties in central Texas - so one might think that Mort would perhaps kick in for a decent office for Eestor given that he is about to milk this cash cow - right?

Unknown said...

If EEstor has been perfecting an automated production line for years, they must have accumulated quite a few failed ESSUs.

Given their volume, they are not the kind of thing to hide under the rug, and so EEstor must get rid of them somehow.

I wonder if someone in Austin could take a look at the nearest garbage container from EEstor. Who knows? Detectives get a lot of information from the garbage of their suspects.

He or she might get more information this way than knocking at their door.

Just a thought :)

lost_in_space said...


We know who Richard D. Weir is and his connection to Eestor. Listed as one of the co-inventors is a Richard S. Weir. Does anyone know what is his relationship to Richard D. Weir and or to Eestor?

Marcus said...

lost in space, could you provide a link backing that up. Looking at both main patents I don't see that name listed.

Administrator said...

Perhaps Mr. Weir is too busy with his work to spend time on public relations.

His duty is to his private investors and his customers and not to the general public.

lost_in_space said...

Do not have it at my fingertips right now. I will try to find it again.

I have been following this blog and digging for information on Eestor for several months now.

I have seen the name listed on the same document on 2 different occasions. Just don't know the exact link at the moment. At first I thought it to be a typo however there were 3 names listed as co-inventors. It listed Richard D. Weir, Carl Nelson, and Richard S. Weir.

Thought someone may have seen the same document and knew who Richard S. Wier was.

If I remember correctly it was an early document on the technology.

Satya51 said...

They have sales?!
"Est. Annual Sales:$890,000"

Satya51 said...

I saw that too somewhere. I just assumed it was his son.

lost_in_space said...

Not the official document I saw but here is one that list him.

ApplewoodCourt said...

more info ... public records.

Entity Information: EESTOR INC
CEDAR PARK, TX 78613-2287
Status: TEMPORARY GOOD STANDING through August 15, 2008
AUSTIN, TX 78701
Registered Agent Resignation Date:
State of Formation: DE
File Number: 0800006841
SOS Registration Date: August 31, 2001
Taxpayer Number: 17430188700

Officers and Directors




So ... looks like Weir Jr. is the VP

So we have Weir Sr. Weir Jr. Nelson, and Mrs. Weir as employees of the company.

lost_in_space said...

Don't think Richard S. is a son of Richard D.

The following is from a post on this blog site by Tom villars:

"Also this is from a Business Week artical back in 2005, "The company was founded in 2001 by Richard D. Weir, Carl Nelson, and Richard S. Weir, who have backgrounds as senior managers in disk-storage technology at such companies as IBM and Xerox PARC. They previously co-founded disk-storage startup Tulip Memory Systems, where they won 16 U.S. patents."
June 11, 2008 9:19 AM"

Tom Villars said...

My guess this is just a mistake in the article. We know a lot more and this is from way back on June 3rd.

lost_in_space said...

Could be Tom, I did see his name listed on an officlal document to Eestor. Believe it to have been an early patent application but cannot verify that at this time.

He is a real person and has done work with Richard D.

Try this link for some of his patents.

Tom Villars said...


I stand corrected. It is still strange Tom Weir is mentioned sometimes and not others. I do know he left Dell to join his father at EEStor, I just don't know when.

But what are you people doing hanging out here, the new site is up:

ackkk said...

G'dammit Applewoodcourt.

I just read all of this shit. I am feeling really f'ing stupid right now. Did you feel this stupid when you knew it was time to get out of this?

Guess I know I'm going to continue to watch what happens.

ackkk said...

lucky i can count on those here to keep the price up while I get out.

ackkk said...

Tooooooo Baaaaaaad.
I wish this was real.

my blog said...

looks like a hot property :)

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