Friday, August 1, 2008

Instructions for Setting up EEStor Patent Updates

Good Friday Morning to all the European Patent Office staff who read this blog regularly. You may wish to call up your IT Support staff to check capacity, because you're about to get a wee bit of EEStor obsessed traffic.

Thanks to Tom Villars, the only non-anonymous reader/commentator on this blog, we have an excellent set of instructions for how to get automated EEStor patent alerts. You will get emailed alerts any time a patent application is updated. This of course will be no substitution for following the thorough and precise slicing and dicing, mincing and hair splitting that takes place here on this blog by the giants of the EEStory, Satya51, TVillars, and Marcus/Steve (who are actually brothers), RichTerm, BookemDano, Nekote and...and last perhaps most, the 875K readers known as anonymous. Thank you, anonymous. Here's an enjoyable blog post about EEStor for you, anonymous. Enjoy.


OntarioInvestor said...

Permitivity milestone: There really isn't any way to speculate on whether or not Zenn can increase their investment prior to permittivity. It would all depend on the wording of the contract. I don't think Zenn would have to issue a press release concerning whether the investment took place, but it would show up in the 1/4 statements which are due out for Jun/08, at the end of this month (providing the investment took place earlier than Jun/30). Either way Clifford would provide an update at that time.

As to the other question, i would think royalties are definitely the better way to go, way more potential, but sorry to say the most likely result would be a buyout. The concensus seems to be on permittivity the stock would be worth approx 20-25 per share. It's hard to say how the market would react if an buyout offer of say 30-35 a share came out. I would hope they would hold out realizeing it would be worth much more long term, but who knows.

Unknown said...

The evidence and my research and chronological events should clarify to most of you even the scientific community that the science has been proven, prototypes have been made, permittivity, leakage, and recharge/discharge cycles has been tested, all of eestor claims have been validated by the material science experts.

Let me make one thing clear, the prototypes we are talking about are not the ones you put in a car and drive to prove you can go 250 miles on a charge. The prototypes we are talking about are called "prototype components", that were used to prove the science and all the claims of eestor are for real. There is no evidence of any kind that an eesu has been created and put in a car. In fact on march 31st 2008 zenn annual stockholder meeting, zenn board member clearly stated there has never been a prototype ever put in their hands to test their car with.

Now for the evidence to support EEstor claims:
As of Date: April 01 2001: EEstor file for us patent 7033406 - This was very incomplete and had significant information missing much of it theory but little substance and the scientist quickly discounted eestor and the science.
As of Date: 13 august 2004 - WIPO (international patent) was files this patent had the science and evidence prototype components were created and the permittivity, leakage, and number of recharge/discharge cycles were measured and recorded.

as of Date: May 5th 2004 - EEstor looks for investors with their prototypes to prove their claims.
"The technology is basically a parallel plate capacitor with barium titanate as the dielectric. With it's extremely high permittivity, barium titanate has a long history in capacitors, but one known for high leakage, voltage breakdown and temperature sensitivity. EEStor has confronted these drawbacks head on, and has measurements on prototypes to support their claims."

as of Date: August 24th 2004 - In less the 4 month of looking for investor, Zenn signs exclusive agreement.
Zenn validated the prototypes and did their "Due Diligence" and signed exclusive agreement:
To the scientist community who do not understand what "DUE DILIGENCE" means. You have expert scientist in the material science field validate the prototypes actually met eestor claims, this means testing permittivity, leakage and recharge/discharge cycles. click on the learn/eestor menu

As of Date: Sept 03 2005 - Report Surfaces Kleiner Perkins invest in Eestor
Last week BusinessWeek reported an interesting comment from Kleiner's John Doerr, who recently spoke at a California event where tech VCs gather to make their predictions for the year. Doerr reportedly referred to an investment in an energy storage company he declined to name, calling it Kleiner's "Highest-risk, highest-reward" investment.

At this point can we all agree that Kleiner Perkins also did their "DUE DILIGENCE" ...

As of Date: Jan 2007 - Eestor Press Release Clearly states Prototypes exist
The company anticipates that the relative permittivity of the current powder will either meet and/or exceed 18,500, the previous level achieved when EEStor produced prototype components using it engineering level processing equipment.

As of Date: Jan 2008 - Lockeed Martin Sign Exclusive Agreement
Yes, we probably all agree Lockheed martin did their ""DUE DILIGENCE" So when Liebman was of Lockheed Martin was interview and stated without exception
Are you confident that their technology will offer a greater amount of energy and power density than batteries?
Yes, and at a fraction of the cost.
Do their caps hold 10x the energy at 1/10th the weight of a lead acid battery?

As of Date: July 30th 2008 - Interview with Richard Weir after press release July 20th 2008…
Blogger: I hate to bring this up because I feel like I'm pretty clear on the information that's out there in regards to what you're saying about production. But still, a lot of people still think that you haven't even got a prototype.

RW: We've have made prototypes of this and those have....they were made with technologies that we had at the time. And what I'm telling the people today is in 2007 we made a corporate decision to put in more advanced technologies which we now and this data shows that we hit a home run on these technologies. Prototypes have been built and prototypes have been tested.

Hopefully now we can move past the prototype and the science.

Anonymous said...

I have invested in zenn ever since they first announced a partnership with eestor. Am I biased towards EEstor? Certainly. But I am also a very science minded person with a credible background in the patent filing process. These guys are doing it by the book and that deserves high praise. They have recieved the attention of a small agile startup car company that is making a positive difference and have signed an agreement with one of the worlds most prominent defense contractors. Thats enough for me. The reality here is they are making very wise business choices. Other companies will not even have the opportunity to compete until its too late. First they need the legal protection which they are getting. Only the large players such as lockheed will abide by a contract and an NDA before any and all patents go through the international filing process. Its the way it should be done and this third party verification of product purity is a massive step. Unfortunately most people simply don't understand the what really goes into an ultracap and therefore dismiss it as hocus pocus. I believe Mr. Weir is a genius and his reputation in other industries gives him credibility to achieve this and many other great milestones.

I certainly don't feel good about the fact that Chevy plans on releasing an electric/gas car without a battery design in place. That is irresponsible and a desparate cry for help. We are even seeing commercials on something that my not even work. Its the classic Detroit tactic...overpromise and put the money in the wrong place. You wont see Mr. Wier on any commercials, because he seems to be a part of the solution, not part of the hype. He does sneek under the radar quite well.

Mr. Weir is sitting on a goldmine and he doesn't care what any of us think because he knows its real.

I think the automotive world is in for a massive shakeup from this company until I hear EEstor stops making progress. So far they have only achieved milestones, signed on credible people and partners and the future is looking brighter for this company.

johng said...

I still want to see, as most people, an unabiguous statement that "We have tested the ESU for permittivity AT 300V/Micron field strength, and it remains at 18,000"

"It really does store 52KVA"

Why is that so hard?

And pointing to the WIPO application does not count, I don't believe that is real data. In the first place, if they had that, they would not have had to "search for investors" for more then 5 minutes.

Anonymous said...

No, Johng, Weir has already said that its tested and it works. You think it might give you more certainty if he says it again, but that's not true.

It is very clear now that it either works or he's a liar. Personally, I don't think he's a liar.

richterm said...

"It certainly allows us to meet present specifications and major advances in energy storage in the future," he said. "It'll meet the voltage, we say that, it'll meet the polarization, saturation, we say that."

Zawy said...

His statement "[we made prototypes using the technologies at the time]" could mean they don't have a prototype of their new technologies that theoretically support 300V/um with k=18,000. They haven't emailed me to explain how the aluminum oxide isn't ruining the permittivity. Energy density says 7000 J/cc is almost possible. Basic capacitance theory of what they have described says it's clearly impossible.

Zawy said...

Good richterm, that statement implies they don't have a prototype of the voltage and energy density they've said it will meet.

Tom Zara said...

Hey mrjerry,
In your chronological events, why did you omit EESTOR's press release from March 2006?
“This is a very sophisticated electric car, with 250 to 300 miles of range,” Richard Weir, CEO, president and co-founder of EEStor said."

If we are to believe you "There is no evidence of any kind that an eesu has been created and put in a car. In fact on march 31st 2008 zenn annual stockholder meeting, zenn board member clearly stated there has never been a prototype ever put in their hands to test their car with" then Dick Weir lied in the press release of March 2006.

Charles Barton said...

I received the following comment by "Carl" on my blog this morning:
Pollution: Moving from individual engines to central electricity generating plants would mean a net decrease in overall pollution. Even getting pollution out of our crowded cities would be a gain for public health.

Charging: There's no need for five minute charging at home. If one needs to get a big quick boost, that can be provided at dedicated charging stations.

Dick Weir, founder and CEO of EEStor, told me a few weeks ago that there would be an announcement soon on permittivity of its barium titanite powder, considered a major benchmark that would trigger future payments to EEStor from ZENN, and I can only assume Kleiner Perkins as well.

Zawy said...

This announcement was really, in Richard's mind, all about the permittivity even though it was about purity. So I think Richards statment there was referring to this announcement

Unknown said...

I am aware of that article, and it can not be substantiated, the site was removed and zenn clearly states they have never had a prototype to test with. Therefore it should not be used to support of the existence of a essu.

Satya51 said...

Given the RW statement to Blogger, "Everything we got there is the holy grail of everything we've worked for here. Permittivity, it seems to me people overconcentrate on it. Permittivity is a subset of getting these. If you dont get these, you dont get the permittivity. If you
get these, you get the permittivity and you can set it up at very high levels. This allows us to meet present specifications but more importantly or equally, it's the pathway for future advancement. In 2007, we made a conscious corporate decision to put in our advanced technologies. Of course, thats going to take a little longer! But we did that with very good reasoning behind it. As it states there, there are some mission critical programs out there that we wanted make sure that we could meet. Now what we had (prior to our advanced technology) could certainly meet alot of the programs. Putting our advanced technologies in place...this is why we are so happy.....because this shows the success of our advanced technologies. "

Would it be excessive to speculate that the planned military version of the ESU would be available for commercial applications (half the weight, or twice the storage)?

Tom Zara said...

Hey mrjerry,

So you are saying there was no press release by EESTOR March 2006, no open house at EESTOR, Dick Weir never made those comments.
There must be a conspiracy against Dick Weir. From what I see is people want to see what they want to see. Good Luck!

nekote said...


I tried that link to the instructions posted via on how to setup the patent alerts.

I could see my name, rather than my gmail account name.

Startled me.
last to edit
Others were listed at the bottom of the web page as also currently editing the document.
current editors
Google Docs REVEALING user names??? (and recording Gmail email names - often the same thing - as co-authors?)
naughty Google Docs?
Something foolish, within Google Docs?
Some "no co-authors" box not checked?
Some privacy box?

*Everybody* going to be a "co-author", and listed?

Plus, the first hyperlink "page" seems busted - should be epoline something?

Marcus said...

I am looking forward to b's latest interview with Ian Clifford. One of the requested questions was have you ever seen a working prototype. Not as good as asking whether it was working at the reported specs, but a positive answer would be something. Any progress b?

Tom Villars said...


There was a mix up in the link. Please try it now. It should just come up as a normal web page.

Unknown said...

Tom, thanks for patent email update instructions - fantastic!

Looking over the patent documents (from the All Documents link), I am perplexed by the apparent failure of EEStor to respond to the European patent office in time.

12/13/07 - EEStor notified that the patent would be rejected as it stands unless they respond within 4 months.

4/10/08 - EEStor requested a 2 month extension in which to respond

4/15/08 - Two month extension granted until 6/13/08 - "If no reply to the communication is received in due time, the European patent application will be deemed to be withdrawn."

6/23/08 - EEStor responds, seemingly 10 days past the deadline at which the patent would be considered withdrawn

dmon said...

One statement in the recent validation articles is bugging me: the statement from Horiba about maintaining "sufficient voltage at ideal temperatures".

I haven't noticed anyone point this out, though I haven't followed all posts closely due to volume.

Um... does this imply that the EESU must be kept in a temperature-regulated chamber? That strikes me as a little heavy and energy intensive.

Matt said...

If the EESU has to be kept at a constant temperature, then it will be in an insulated box, and a little bit of the energy it stores would be spent to keep it warm. I don't think it would be a significant cost.

dmon said...

Keep it warm... or cold. I wonder how tight the operating temperature range is on the EESU.

Unknown said...

Excllent article - A MUST READ
"The facts strongly suggest we have a new set of interesting concerns coming up that may be more incredible than the technology or a disappointment to rival any in history. We’ll see."

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
OntarioInvestor said...

i think that the last press release was the show that they have the ability to do the permattivity tests themself. I think they are worried about the tech leaking out, and i think they are not going to third party....that would make sense as well.

Doc said...

Why did you choose to remove my post concerning the apparent location of the 'company'? I did not do it to cause a problem. Simply to point out that the company address location is a private residence. Which, to me... makes no sense.

b said...

Doc, in the event that was an address to a personal residence of someone involved with EEStor, I dont want this to be a place someone might learn that.

Tom Villars said...


Take a look at this link and then tell me if you think HP might be a scam.

Doc said...

I understand and agree, That was not my intent.


I see your point, however, do you see MINE. HP BEGAN in that garage. EEStor supposedly HAS A PRODUCTION facility. I would suspect that facility has an address and that the patent would have been associated with the business which relates to that address at the time the patent was filed.

Filing initially with a home address makes sense, IF you don't have a business address. However, using a home address for a WORLD patent is odd, especially after you have the facility.

Look, I am sure that LMco, KP, and Zenn didn't look at the basement. All I am saying is that it is an odd fact in a murky situation.

Tom Villars said...


You do know this patent is a continuation of the one filed in 2001? I'm not a patent attorney, but I'd imagine changing as little as possible is the safest way to manage getting approval from the patent office.

I doubt at the time the Weir's were all that worried about having this info splashed all over the Internet but then Dick Weir is an honest and responsible person. They must find all this disbelieve in their character surprising considering neither has done anything to deserve this level of disrespect.

nekote said...

Tom Villars,

Thanks for the prompt action.

The co-authoring listed at the bottom of web page is gone. I'm guessing the sharing record is not viewable, either.

(you still get to see all that, behind the scenes???)

But, along the top, I still find myself listed by my name, not even just my gmail name.

And most oddly, "edited on August 3, 2008 at 4:01 AM by ... me ..." Uhh, today is August 1, AFAIK.

Google Docs have some bugs?
(I do use Google Desktop)

Doc said...

tom... and Dick Weir if you ever get around to seeing this comment.

I respect your thoughts greatly. I understand the system EEStor has chosen to proceed, however, as an investor in a company (ZENN), I am TRYING to look at the merits of the company. Truthfully, Zenn is nothing without EEStor. Therefor, I am looking at EEStor in the same vein.

I am absolutely torn, and NOT because of the potential investments I could make or lose out on. I am torn, because I believe that IF... IF IF IF... EEStor pans out, it will truly change the world. I have 4 children, who NEED the world to be changed for the better. So I am truly involved in the thought. I also believe that, as a physician, people WANTING something to happen doesn't make it so. I have had families completely disbelieve me, when I tell them things which are critical to their or their loved ones life, and yet they will continue to disregard my instructions because it doesn't fit what they WANT to be the case.

I REALLY want EEStor to work. Whether I, with an investor hat, make a dime or not, I will benefit. However, on the other hand, I believe that it is my duty, to my family, and in extension, to the ones I read with on these boards, to give my impression as it is based on facts. I do not ALWAYS have all the facts. I might not even have most. But one thing which I have always been good at is assimilation of the AVAILABLE information and formulation of a reasonable direction based upon that information. Keys to both investment and health parallel each other, in that when outliers occur, you better pay attention.

So, when I notice things which do not make sense, I try to incorporate them into the total scheme. I post, because I KNOW that there are others who might know another bit of information which will clear up or bend the tac in a new direction.

I do appreciate the opportunity to have something worthwhile to discuss, and a forumn in which to post it.

Tom Villars said...


While I appreciate your trying to learn everything you can I guess I'm a little fed up with the minutia that seems to take up more and more of the discussion. Worrying about the correspondence address on a patent application has got to be way down on the list of priorities of things to check. For example how many of ZENN's quarterly and yearly financial reports have read? Have you read any professional analyst reports from Reuters Investment or Versant Partners? Have you researched any of the people that sit on ZENN's board besides Ian Clifford?

I suppose everyone has to start somewhere and looking up the patent is a reasonable place to start. So sorry if you feel I snapped at you, but the nonsense that has been spouted here about a potential Nobel Prize Winner makes me wonder if Dick Weir should ever bother talking to the public again.