tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post871053316800603173..comments2024-02-16T02:11:01.578-05:00Comments on EEStor Ultracapacitors: Battery Revolution begins with Electric Cars?: Reader Zawy on EEStor Purity AnnouncementUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger78125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-599127490488329432008-08-02T21:01:00.000-04:002008-08-02T21:01:00.000-04:00Zawy:Alumina is pretty tough, it is used for subst...Zawy:<BR/><BR/>Alumina is pretty tough, it is used for substrates in hybrid circuits. It is a ceramic, after all. <BR/><BR/>Ontario investor;<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the insight. I wonder if you can clarify one point. When a topic like this comes up for a potential investment, wouldn't someone check with any one of the hundred or so known experts? Its not hard to Google Barium Titanate and get the johnghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01789809844702219075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-22075376959483454922008-07-31T18:20:00.000-04:002008-07-31T18:20:00.000-04:00zawy did you see the section from the wiki discuss...zawy did you see the section from the wiki discussion page (or perhaps was this you?).<BR/><BR/>If not see near the end of this page: <BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:EEStor<BR/><BR/>Also I saw your latest extended exchange with Y_Po and suggest that you also try Prof Randall for some answers. I'm sure he would be very glad to explain things very clearly.Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10800215214582791177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-65518756424651933482008-07-31T10:11:00.000-04:002008-07-31T10:11:00.000-04:00One of the most interesting things to me is that t...One of the most interesting things to me is that the PET plastic occupies only 4% of the volume to fill the voids between the particles according to the world patent. For closely packed spheres it would have to be 25%. I assume randomly-oriented crystal cubes would have more void space than spheres. Therefore the cubic crystals must oriented (stacked) extremely well (face-on-face) and of the Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-35796229196176040712008-07-31T09:57:00.000-04:002008-07-31T09:57:00.000-04:00b, i see you have a future place for tech discussi...b, i see you have a future place for tech discussions. Here are the topics i think are important and interesting:<BR/><BR/>1) How can the 10 nm AlO3 coating not kill the permittivity? <BR/><BR/>2) A good image of the material giving the information that we have: 10 layers of 1 um cubic-shaped CMBT particles covered in 10 nm AlO3, immersed in 4% by volume PET, between 1 um aluminum plates 10 um Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-43756789027156159282008-07-31T09:36:00.000-04:002008-07-31T09:36:00.000-04:00yes i emailed them 20 hours ago. I'll definitely ...yes i emailed them 20 hours ago. I'll definitely post again if they reply. It would be good if b could people could forward all responses EEStor gives to b and he post the Q and A. However, i suppose EEStor may have "do no disclose" requests as their signature.Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-61640734428784770402008-07-31T09:26:00.000-04:002008-07-31T09:26:00.000-04:00Ok I see Anon on the Clive Randall post above has ...Ok I see Anon on the Clive Randall post above has referenced a possible answer.Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10800215214582791177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-51469866509255926032008-07-30T20:00:00.000-04:002008-07-30T20:00:00.000-04:00zawy, did you try emailing them and asking? Can't ...zawy, did you try emailing them and asking? Can't hurt.Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10800215214582791177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-63920324402071235512008-07-30T14:30:00.000-04:002008-07-30T14:30:00.000-04:00Sounds great. Glad i didn't sell. Now if someone ...Sounds great. Glad i didn't sell. Now if someone could explain how they are doing that with a AlO3 coating not killing the permittivity.Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-48611278209218864422008-07-30T13:59:00.000-04:002008-07-30T13:59:00.000-04:00Zawy, Weir just told B that they have built protot...Zawy, <BR/><BR/>Weir just told B that they have built prototypes and they've tested prototypes along time ago during the research and development phase.<BR/><BR/>They are far beyond being able to make this revolutionary ESU.<BR/><BR/>He also said alot of people have seen the prototypes.<BR/><BR/>He said it works. "No bullshit."<BR/><BR/>The prototype achieved phat ass permittivity.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13072728365984110108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-40714352848145204102008-07-30T13:52:00.000-04:002008-07-30T13:52:00.000-04:00They only certified that they have the ability to ...They only certified that they have the ability to measure the purity. <BR/><BR/>The "polarization step" during manufacturing is important to make it have a high permittivity and higher energy density. "Polarization" is also used to describe a completely different thing: it's what happens to the material when the capacitor is in use. "Polarization saturation voltage" aka "dielectric saturation Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-57362250675200513692008-07-30T13:33:00.000-04:002008-07-30T13:33:00.000-04:00Zawy,Do me solid and drop the equations for this r...Zawy,<BR/><BR/>Do me solid and drop the equations for this reply. Just examine what Weir said in the PR yesterday... when he said that they had certified the key milestone for polarization.<BR/><BR/>Explain polarization and how it relates to permittivity. Forget about whether the math adds up, just comments on Weir's PR.<BR/><BR/>Thanks...stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13072728365984110108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-36008589393673353762008-07-30T13:18:00.000-04:002008-07-30T13:18:00.000-04:00Richard Weir, president and CEO of EEStor, told th...<I>Richard Weir, president and CEO of EEStor, told the Cleantech Group his company's certification announcement is significant.<BR/><BR/>"It certainly allows us to meet present specifications and major advances in energy storage in the future," he said. <B>"It'll meet the voltage, we say that, it'll meet the polarization, saturation, we say that."</B></I><BR/><BR/>Compare this to what he said in stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13072728365984110108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-74508851795108599412008-07-30T12:31:00.000-04:002008-07-30T12:31:00.000-04:00I believe crystals would form as rectangular shape...I believe crystals would form as rectangular shapes. These may pack more closely than sphere, which would explain why they say they will need 6 times less PET than i estimated. This is probably why they mentioned in the release that the size distribution had to be very precise: packing rectangular cubes of different size would have much larger gaps that would require more PET that would ruin Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-5192596112821757462008-07-30T12:19:00.000-04:002008-07-30T12:19:00.000-04:00To put it in numbers, I have seen one reference th...To put it in numbers, I have seen one reference that claimed the modified BT stretched 0.4%. It stretches from the piezo effect perpendicular to the applied field so that yes, it could open up cracks. Let's say by the miracle of perfectly oriented crystals in plastic their crystals can stretch a whopping 4% to store all that energy. That would cause a max area in cracks to be 4%. So it would Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-7989527357831782472008-07-30T11:56:00.000-04:002008-07-30T11:56:00.000-04:00I would think AlO3 (a metal oxide) to be as flexib...I would think AlO3 (a metal oxide) to be as flexible as a metal, but maybe it doesn't stretch coherently as well as metals. I believe it's the coating on aluminum cans, and that's a lot of adherence while stretching, although i don't know that there are no cracks. I didn't imply the coating would prevent the crystal from stretching. I want to see "lots" of crystal stretching ("lots" for a Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-63725078415673644352008-07-30T11:49:00.000-04:002008-07-30T11:49:00.000-04:00People are hung up on this "permittivity testing" ...People are hung up on this "permittivity testing" milestone. First, if that milestone has not been reached, what was the data in the world patent? Prototypes? Second, permittivity of the CMBT is well known and easy to achieve, so what's the big deal? Has ANYONE said that permittivity test will be at high voltage that can demonstrate the needed energy storage? Third, if it is not tested in a Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-19857966047154726722008-07-30T11:48:00.000-04:002008-07-30T11:48:00.000-04:00zawy,Thanks for the response, but AlO3 is not a me...zawy,<BR/>Thanks for the response, but AlO3 is not a metal, and being just a very thin coating, should not restrain expansion of the BT crystal during polarization. With respect to cracks in the M&M like surface being too small to offer relief to their effect on permattivity, that does leave some doubt. But, then I am just trying to see how it could work.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, once Satya51https://www.blogger.com/profile/17691711660350262740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-77300327805331339062008-07-30T11:34:00.001-04:002008-07-30T11:34:00.001-04:00Just off the pressEEStor's Weir on ultracapaci...Just off the press<BR/><BR/>EEStor's Weir on ultracapacitor milestone<BR/>July 30, 2008 - Exclusive<BR/>By David Ehrlich, Cleantech Group<BR/><BR/>Similar<BR/>EEStor claims third party verification<BR/>Zenn gearing up for EEStor-powered car<BR/>Lockheed Martin to use EEStor's ultracapacitors<BR/>Zenn electric cars cleared for Canada<BR/>Golden Dragon Bus to use Maxwell ultracapacitors<BR/OntarioInvestorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06324745963609515085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-75262486117185054192008-07-30T11:34:00.000-04:002008-07-30T11:34:00.000-04:00IMHO, the fact that LM is working with the Predato...IMHO, the fact that LM is working with the Predator UAV tells me that what they call future products is not the same as the standard 52kwh EESU that weighs 300 lbs.<BR/><BR/>The standard EESU does not have the energy density to really make that work. Double it and it becomes possible.garretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11217856446210070843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-63182161224244021042008-07-30T11:32:00.000-04:002008-07-30T11:32:00.000-04:00PS, since the layers are capacitances in series, t...PS, since the layers are capacitances in series, the equation comes from the standard equation for capacitance:<BR/><BR/>C total = 1 / (1/C1 + 1/C2 + 1/C3 + ... )<BR/><BR/>C1 can be the capacitance of 1 layer of CMBT: C1=e*21,000*A/1 um. Next layer CMBT is C2. Since they are the same, the 1/C1 can be changed to number layers / C1 to account for all layers.<BR/><BR/>So i hope b will push 2 Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-34241635783322935032008-07-30T11:14:00.000-04:002008-07-30T11:14:00.000-04:00This post is to prove EEStor cannot be using a 10 ...This post is to prove EEStor cannot be using a 10 nm AlO3 coating on 1 micron CMBT particles as they claim <B>and</B> have a permittivity anywhere near their claims. <BR/><BR/>As an overestimate of the permittivity we model the matrix as alternating layers of 1 um CMBT and 20 nm aluminum oxide. Modeling it this way adds 25% more CMBT and takes away 36% of the alum oxide coating and orders the Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-18760446602354555372008-07-30T11:08:00.000-04:002008-07-30T11:08:00.000-04:00Steve may prove to be right, but considering what ...Steve may prove to be right, but considering what EEStor has announced the failure to report certification of a third party verification of an existing working prototype still represents a red flag. Present products could refer to the materials mentioned in the press release. Future products could mean actual EESUs. <BR/><BR/>Two things have occurred to me today:<BR/>1. Past accounts of EEStorCharles Bartonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01125297013064527425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-1531727111169126012008-07-30T11:05:00.000-04:002008-07-30T11:05:00.000-04:00Their world patent application says 4% PET by volu...Their world patent application says 4% PET by volume, not by weight which is absurd if the particles (of whatever shape) are packed in as efficiently as spheres. 25% is void if they are spheres. With only on this glaring piece of mis-information, the world patent application that gives the permittivity for 10 EESU components seems to be a hoax. I'm undecided today on if I should keep my huge Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-34478257661644932952008-07-30T10:56:00.000-04:002008-07-30T10:56:00.000-04:00Steve, I did not mean any harm or ridicule. Instea...Steve, I did not mean any harm or ridicule. Instead of saying "absurd" let me say, "there's no way" their use of the word "potential" could have meant voltage or energy storage, even though it's theoretically possible to make the sentence grammatically and logically correct.<BR/><BR/>If the AlO3 is fractured, it only opens small cracks as locations of excellent permittivity, not counting the PET Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-33916503247805290022008-07-30T10:53:00.000-04:002008-07-30T10:53:00.000-04:00The silence is deafening.batter up.The silence is deafening.<BR/><BR/>batter up.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13072728365984110108noreply@blogger.com