tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post2030357267565203463..comments2024-02-16T02:11:01.578-05:00Comments on EEStor Ultracapacitors: Battery Revolution begins with Electric Cars?: Mea CulpaUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger283125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-65858602755447399862008-08-05T23:50:00.000-04:002008-08-05T23:50:00.000-04:00I (Wikipedia contributors) forgot the weight of th...<I><BR/>I (Wikipedia contributors) forgot the weight of the oxygen?<BR/></I><BR/>No, they did not, you did<BR/><I><BR/>Are you saying the combustion oxygen should be factored into the MJ/KG values?<BR/></I><BR/>Yes, if you compare energy density.Y_Pohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05389538346685815112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-33099004326932556892008-08-05T23:35:00.000-04:002008-08-05T23:35:00.000-04:00y-po,I (Wikipedia contributors) forgot the weight ...y-po,<BR/><BR/>I (Wikipedia contributors) forgot the weight of the oxygen?<BR/><BR/>Are you saying the combustion oxygen should be factored into the MJ/KG values?nekotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06762248453660732373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-27547840571659751182008-08-05T23:07:00.000-04:002008-08-05T23:07:00.000-04:00I believe the 1,100 V/um was breakdown only.Right,...<I><BR/>I believe the 1,100 V/um was breakdown only.<BR/></I><BR/>Right, and since Mr. Weir don't believe in saturation it will make energy density 10 time higher :)Y_Pohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05389538346685815112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-57045781643502433072008-08-05T23:03:00.000-04:002008-08-05T23:03:00.000-04:00y_po,Wikipedia on MJ/KGliquid hydrogen 143 MJ/KGga...<I><BR/>y_po,<BR/><BR/>Wikipedia on MJ/KG<BR/><BR/>liquid hydrogen 143 MJ/KG<BR/>gasoline 46.9<BR/>anthracite coal 32.5<BR/>ethanol 30<BR/>lithium ion battery .54 - .72<BR/><BR/>capacitor by EEStor 1.0<BR/>(per MIT TechReview article)<BR/></I><BR/>You forgot weight of oxygenY_Pohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05389538346685815112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-30354758590599409262008-08-05T22:56:00.000-04:002008-08-05T22:56:00.000-04:00Speaking of CN, carbon nanotubes are dropping in p...Speaking of CN, carbon nanotubes are dropping in price 50% faster than moore's law for transistors. In five years, the trend indicates the cheap form will cost $2 per pound. If you think EEStor is important...Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-37451964564973338542008-08-05T22:48:00.000-04:002008-08-05T22:48:00.000-04:00Carbon nanotubes connecting two parallel plates. ...Carbon nanotubes connecting two parallel plates. The problem will be making the plates thin and strong. Youngs modulus can probably be 1,500 MPa with 25% deformation. I get:<BR/><BR/>U = 1.5E12 * 0.25^2 / 2 = 1.9E11/m^3<BR/>U = 190,000 J/cc<BR/><BR/>Where the energy is simply stored in the carbon nanotube springs. Probably have trouble finding strong plates that can hold that kind of charge.Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-89593543663730094242008-08-05T22:14:00.000-04:002008-08-05T22:14:00.000-04:00y_po, 11,000 J/cc / 6 g/cc = 1.8 MJ/kg at 350 V/...y_po, 11,000 J/cc / 6 g/cc = 1.8 MJ/kg at 350 V/um<BR/><BR/>I believe the 1,100 V/um was breakdown only.Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-4478014804640594802008-08-05T21:58:00.000-04:002008-08-05T21:58:00.000-04:00y_po,Wikipedia on MJ/KGliquid hydrogen 143 MJ/KGga...y_po,<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density" REL="nofollow">Wikipedia on MJ/KG</A><BR/><BR/>liquid hydrogen 143 MJ/KG<BR/>gasoline 46.9<BR/>anthracite coal 32.5<BR/>ethanol 30<BR/>lithium ion battery .54 - .72<BR/><BR/>capacitor by EEStor 1.0<BR/>(per <A HREF="http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?ch=specialsections&sc=batteries&id=18086&a=" REL="nofollow"> MITnekotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06762248453660732373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-37177575259312983772008-08-05T21:35:00.000-04:002008-08-05T21:35:00.000-04:00Marcus,You found another possibly nonsensical pate...Marcus,<BR/>You found another possibly nonsensical patent. I really lost my faith in patents.<BR/>I can tell you how possible supercapacitor could look like: It will be made using relatively low k material, with extremely large break-down voltage (100 times higher than what we have now) dielectric layer and plates will be few atoms thick. It will have energy density about 1-2 MJ/kg. Mr Weir by Y_Pohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05389538346685815112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-51710927743812406142008-08-05T21:31:00.000-04:002008-08-05T21:31:00.000-04:00Oh well, I'm not that surprised actually. There ar...Oh well, I'm not that surprised actually. There are a lot of wackos out there and since the patent process doesn't check scientific validity...Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10800215214582791177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-74698056169254432202008-08-05T21:28:00.000-04:002008-08-05T21:28:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Y_Pohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05389538346685815112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-56609632342850073212008-08-05T21:21:00.000-04:002008-08-05T21:21:00.000-04:00That's only 300 J/cc, 35 times less than eestor 11...That's only 300 J/cc, 35 times less than eestor 11,000 J/cc. I haven't read it yet. Still only northrop g is similar. Bast didn't mention saturation, so theywere too speculative. For any charge flow to work, it would have to flow thru the alumina too. But then pet is still a serous problem for the high k. I saw several patents that used a glass matrix (eestor first patent) and the k was indeed Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-75323478792184903212008-08-05T21:01:00.000-04:002008-08-05T21:01:00.000-04:00zawy, is this patent not claiming reversible elect...zawy, is this patent not claiming reversible electron movement just as you hypothesized?Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10800215214582791177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-88635530662412696972008-08-05T20:41:00.000-04:002008-08-05T20:41:00.000-04:00They seem to be claiming a max energy storage of 1...They seem to be claiming a max energy storage of 1.66 MJ/kg. How much does a cc of BaTiO3 weigh? If it was the same density as water that would be 1.66 kJ / cc. Do you think perhaps Weir has some quantum tricks up his sleeve?Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10800215214582791177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-21273808835441237042008-08-05T20:33:00.000-04:002008-08-05T20:33:00.000-04:00Marcus,I don't think it is possible to decipher wh...Marcus,<BR/>I don't think it is possible to decipher what are they talking about.Y_Pohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05389538346685815112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-90356623395146187232008-08-05T20:26:00.000-04:002008-08-05T20:26:00.000-04:00In case that link doesn't work try this US patent ...In case that link doesn't work try this US patent App. No.<BR/><BR/>200100846Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10800215214582791177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-49433420795730107662008-08-05T20:24:00.000-04:002008-08-05T20:24:00.000-04:00Ok, what do you make of this?http://appft1.uspto.g...Ok, what do you make of this?<BR/><BR/>http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20060097302&OS=20060097302&RS=20060097302Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10800215214582791177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-71228364632078643152008-08-05T20:19:00.000-04:002008-08-05T20:19:00.000-04:00Marcus,I don't know, I can't read your link, I gue...Marcus,<BR/>I don't know, I can't read your link, I guess not much.Y_Pohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05389538346685815112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-73515428080965035822008-08-05T19:50:00.000-04:002008-08-05T19:50:00.000-04:00Hey Y_Po, how much of the story has changed since ...Hey Y_Po, how much of the story has changed since this paper? This seems like quite a nice albeit dated introductory paper that may help others follow a little better the technical discussions.<BR/><BR/>http://journals.iucr.org/q/issues/1952/06/00/a00742/a00742.pdf<BR/><BR/>Acta Cryst. (1952). 5, 739<BR/>Origin of Ferroelectricity in Barium Titanate and<BR/>Other Perovskite-Type Crystals<BR/>BY Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10800215214582791177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-40068156897153036112008-08-05T18:46:00.000-04:002008-08-05T18:46:00.000-04:00Great link jam. If charges can move through the ma...<I><BR/>Great link jam. If charges can move through the material than dipole can be much larger.<BR/></I><BR/>They can't, and when they can it is not reversible therefore you can't store energy.Y_Pohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05389538346685815112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-44596029779913427062008-08-05T18:22:00.000-04:002008-08-05T18:22:00.000-04:00Great link jam. If charges can move through the m...Great link jam. If charges can move through the material than dipole can be much larger. I found out the electron cloud-created dipole can be maybe half the total dipole (ionic the other half and not counting electron movements in doped BT), meaning maybe twice as much J/cc will be available in my calculations for a given SMALL "Ti" ion movement, plus the new electron movement. Ti/O2 dipole Zawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03727573717462028189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-14658914151269778662008-08-05T17:06:00.000-04:002008-08-05T17:06:00.000-04:00Not necessarely. But for a good understanding of w...<I><BR/>Not necessarely. But for a good understanding of what this material is. It does mentionned polarization , grain size, breakdown etc.<BR/><BR/>In summary, k ~ 2000 ! in their configuration.<BR/></I><BR/>It does mention polarization, but it has no relation to what EEstor put in their patent. Also this thesis <B>does not mention</B> saturation. It mention break-down only once when giving Y_Pohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05389538346685815112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-27236098453358238402008-08-05T14:38:00.000-04:002008-08-05T14:38:00.000-04:00It doesn't have to be FedEx. Just a bubble-wrap en...It doesn't have to be FedEx. Just a bubble-wrap envelop will do :)jamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14331223630670786249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-12705656133239416252008-08-05T14:30:00.000-04:002008-08-05T14:30:00.000-04:00"Just send me one. In 5 minutes, with a resistor, ..."Just send me one. In 5 minutes, with a resistor, a soldering iron, a couple of alligator clip and an earphone(or speaker), I can verify if the capacitance is close to 1000µF or more likely 10 µF."<BR/><BR/>That's the problem. They're not sending them to anyone.Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10800215214582791177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8489475285158529856.post-21347251099538154832008-08-05T12:30:00.000-04:002008-08-05T12:30:00.000-04:00What is so difficult in establishing if the permit...What is so difficult in establishing if the permittivity value has been reach or not?<BR/><BR/>They have built a bunch of components which have a design capacitance value of 979µF.<BR/><BR/>Just send me one. In 5 minutes, with a resistor, a soldering iron, a couple of alligator clip and an earphone(or speaker), I can verify if the capacitance is close to 1000µF or more likely 10 µF.jamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14331223630670786249noreply@blogger.com